Saturday, 8 March 2008

Trinitarian submissiveness

I posted on Thursday about a Trinitarian Blog Summit that was being held on Nick Norelli's blog, Rightly Diving the Word of Truth. Nick wrote a essay on the issue of Subordination within the Trinity to the Father.

Here he argued that both Jesus and the Holy Spirit are eternally subordinate to the Father, as Jesus was sent by the Father from His eternal pre-existence to his temporal existence in his limited capacity as man.
I thought he wrote a excellent essay, though personally I'm not sure that because God is one, that there can be any subordination within Himself; rather that the Trinity is and has to be mutually submitted to each other for it to be truly representative of them being one God.
Paul talks about the Body of Christ, how while we all have different functions we all belong to each other. Rom 12:4. I would propose that the Church in one way represents the functioning of the Godhead through our mutual submission to one another, though the illustration is limited as we are not God and therefore are subordinated to Him and to his sovereignty.

I commented as follows,

I think more work needs to be done in proving eternal subordination over temporal subordination, engaging in that Jesus was ushered in through the Spirit.

If the Spirit of God moves us to prayerful intercession, like He did Jesus; could it be that the Spirit of God moves / moved God to intercede, therefore pointing to an eternal mutual submissiveness?

Nick's replied to me,
Craig: Good question. It definitely merits taking a deeper look.
I think it does merit taking a deeper look at the role of the Holy Spirit through intercession, to see how the Trinity works mutually submitting to one another. The thought comes to mind about God telling Abraham that he was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah and Moses that he would destroy the Israelites and how both interceded on their behalf and God relented from his anger...another way to read this is that God submitted to their pleas.

Paul speaks of the human spirit 2 Cor 2:11 and the philosophical question to ask, is what moves our spirit? Does our body and mind control it, or does the spirit move our mind and body or are they mutually submitted to each other?

We read in Gen 1:2 that it was the Spirit of God who moved over the emptiness, and then God spoke. Could it be that it was the Spirit who was moved by the emptiness of nothing, moved God to speak?
Rom 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.
Rom 8:27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.
We know from this passage that the Spirit of God is a intercessory Spirit and from the examples given in regards to Abraham and Moses that God will submit himself to intercession. Building on Jungels proposal of The God who comes, I would say that the Trinity is the God who intercedes, and it is through the role of intercession that we see mutual submissiveness within the Godhead at work. We read first the Spirit interceding over the emptiness of nothingness, then God interceding with mankind with his promise of a seed; Christ! Christ is now eternally interceding on our behalf before the father, who sees us through Christs blood, pure and spotless, and again the Spirit moving backwards and forwards carrying our prayers, guiding us as to Gods ways of living.

Here I see an example of mutual submissive function within the Godhead rather then a superior / subordinate functioning - which by its nature must denote the fullness of the deity of both the Son and the Spirit if they are eternally subordinate to the Father.

This requires a lot more thought given to it, does any one know of any work done in this area?


Adam Pastor said...

Greetings Craig

On the subject of the trinity,
I recommend this video:
The Human Jesus

Take a couple of hours to watch it; and prayerfully it will aid you to reconsider "The Trinity"

Yours In Messiah
Adam Pastor

Craig Bennett said...

G'day Adam.

Thanks for dropping by. I checked out your blog and couldn't find much info about yourself on it.

Are you a member of Christidelphians, Jehova Witness or some other kind of cult?

I don't have the time nor inclination to watch any heretical movie that denies the divinity of Christ and the Holy Spirit.

Blessings craig b